What companies get right and wrong about candidate experience with Yeliz Castillo

Thomas Kohler:
Today’s guest, Yeliz Akin, Senior Talent Partner, Project Lead and Talent Lead at pplwise.

Also giving candidates feedback. Do you think it’s great for the experience and where do you think it’s also a bit maybe risky because some really just don’t take it good when you reject them and then also ask them for feedback. And then, of course, some really do it for an honest learning experience. And that is just what to sue you because maybe you used a wrong word in the feedback and then it was harassing and then you pay a fine.

Yeliz Castillo:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, this is also something that I think, you know, we always say feedback, but again, I think this is also very individual basis because as you said, there are some candidates they really need, whether the positive or the constructive feedback, and there are other ones that don’t care or don’t want it. I had this couple of times, actually, where I called people after a final or a second stage interview, and they were like, well, you could have just sent me an email. Why did you call me for this? So I don’t think this is like a one way fits all process, and I think you do a really good job there. I know that when you have people in a process that you offer them that they can book a slot in with you to give them feedback, and then you kind of leave them the option to get feedback if they want to, or if they don’t, then they just leave it. And I think that’s really great.

Thomas Kohler:
Yeah. But also just when they’re later on the stage, right. If they passed, maybe coming to a case study or to a final or maybe at least one or two calls down the road, because otherwise it’s just not feasible.

Yeliz Castillo:
Yeah, for sure. I think, you know, when, like, to me, the best approach is really, like, after the first interview, I always say that to all my candidates, you will receive an email, and it’s a generic email, that it didn’t work out. It’s nothing personal. It’s just a pool of applicants that we have. And I think communication is very important. So they know that they will receive either an email that is, when it was negative, or they will receive a phone call when it gets to the next stage to arrange the next stage. You know, I think it’s very simple as that. And I think everyone understands that you cannot send 100 million, you know, like, conversations.

Thomas Kohler:
We talked about candidate experience with practical tips on how long your process should take. What are the main attributes to either win or lose candidates through a great experience, and what to consider as an employer, what to anticipate and where you really need to have your attention on.

Welcome, Liz. Really looking forward to this episode. I remember when we first met, I think last year, I was really impressed about the way you are perceived from candidates and also from customers, stakeholders. And I’m really glad that we can today do an episode on candidate experience. So first, maybe we start with a short introduction about yourself.

Yeliz Castillo:
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I’m also so excited to be here. And, yeah, I do remember as well when we first met, it was super exciting because I think from a value perspective, we really clicked and, yeah, and I think that sums a lot up who I am as a person. I’m very value driven, but on a professional background, I have studied HR. I’ve been working in that field for the last nine years and have done quite a lot of things. I’ve studied HR and psychology, worked in general HR. I’ve done learning and development, and now I am in the world of recruitment for the last three years.

Thomas Kohler:
Cool. And what excites you most about candidates are providing a great experience because I think what I can see also compared maybe to, let’s say, the average recruiter, that I can really feel the excitement when you interact with people. And I think that’s something very unique. So where is this excitement coming from?

Yeliz Castillo:
Thank you. That’s a good question. I think the excitement is really about learning about different people. And I, you know, learning about different cultures, different viewpoints, different backgrounds. I find that always very intriguing because I think it doesn’t matter in which position or in which level people are. Everyone can bring some sort of a value and you can learn from anyone, right? Someone who just starts off a career or someone who’s very, very senior. So I think I have this just natural curiosity about people, and that really excites me to, you know, when I interact with them, to learn about them and figure out what they like, what they don’t, what their background is, what the story is, and. Yeah, and just bring that into the recruitment.

Thomas Kohler:
And I think that’s really a great asset, what you have there, because it then is really a great experience, just also doing your job. And also, I think for the people you work with. It’s also a great experience because you can feel it. And I also saw it from a lot of customers that we got a lot of great feedback regarding that piece. So when we just maybe first talk about candidate experience, what for you are the basics of a successful candidate experience?

Yeliz Castillo:
I think what’s the main points to have a positive candidate experience is to really respect their time and to make candidates feel valued and to have a really clear communication of every stage of the process. So from the beginning when you start talking to a candidate, until up until the end of the process or your interaction with them, because you never know. You know, you might interview someone or you interact with someone and they might not be a right fit now, but they can be a fit later for another role that you have or, you know, it opens some sort of a different door. So I think the main points for me to have that great experience is really trying to build a relationship from the get go and within the hiring process. It’s really about, as I said, about the clear communication, timely feedback. And what is timely for you? Well, it depends on the, you know, the level of the seniority. Of course, you know, there are different stages, but I think generally it shouldn’t be longer than three days.

Thomas Kohler:
And from the first, a touch point with the company, like they’re applying, for instance, or also for their down in the interview process in stage three. And then do you then also think three days is valuable or is viable or do you think it should be happening faster? And of course, ideally, but also realistically what is possible and what not and why? Right. Because I think sometimes a recruiter has also 1015 different roles and then candidates along the process. And then sometimes you do not get feedback of hiring managers or of the interview panel on a decision. So how do you deal with all that complexity to manage a certain service level agreement to timely respond to candidate?

Yeliz Castillo:
Yeah, I think that is definitely something down to the recruiter and to the hiring manager that you have to have that agreement from the get go. So everyone is aware how precious time is. Because I think what a lot of companies misunderstand or still don’t get is there is not in all sectors, but in most sectors, it’s not an employer driven market anymore. It is a candidate driven market, which means that candidates are in power and they have usually, especially the good candidates, multiple processes at the same time. So what you have to do as a company is really try to be competitively advanced. And that means that you have to be as fast as possible, but at the same time. I think there is also like a thin line between rushing and making a candidate feel pressured in a way and also bringing in the quality, showing that you’re interested and you’re really trying to make it work with that candidate, you know? So I think there’s also a very thin line, but generally it is about communicating, making clear alignments between the hiring team and obviously the candidate and us as a recruitment party and making sure that everyone is aligned on the process and how urgent it has to be in order to win the candidates for you.

Thomas Kohler:
Yeah. So I like what you say, that in order to even be able to provide a great experience, meaning, clarity and also speed, is to be aligned upfront. And what if you see along the process that stakeholders are not aligned? What are you doing there and how do you bring it to the attention that it has an impact, a negative impact for them that they are not aligned?

Yeliz Castillo:
Yeah. You know, it’s difficult to say that there is a one way of approach because again, we’re dealing with humans, so it can be very individual. But generally speaking, I think it is clear communication, written communication on a very fast basis. So if I realize there is no alignment, then let’s say if I have two, three different stakeholders in a hiring process, and I see very early on in this stage that there is no alignment and one is very slow with feedback, the other one is unsure about what to judge the candidate on or there is a misalignment between them, then what I would definitely do is do like a re kick off and bring all the stakeholders into a call and make sure that we go through the points, align on what’s a question mark or up in the air, and really try to eliminate all the blockers that we have. And obviously throughout the process of any hiring that we do, whether individually with clients, is obviously we work very data driven. So we try to document all the blockers that we kind of anticipate before we start a process. We discuss this with the clients, of course, beforehand, but then obviously sometimes during the process, those blockers can occur out of nowhere without us anticipating. So as soon as they’re there, we just try to communicate them straight away and eliminate them or reduce them at least, you know, you can’t eliminate but, yeah.

Thomas Kohler:
Definitely. And also a framework, what do you use? And what I also saw is really great, that you always just described the situation in terms of gathering some data or writing down what happened in a plain language and also stating out what are the implications or the consequences. Usually they have a negative impact and then also, what are potential solutions? And also being very specific about this. And this is, I would say, a general problem solving communication framework. But in that case, it really can unblock a situation fast. And I think, as you said, if everybody’s aligned, then at least you as a recruiter took the ownership and the full responsibility and productivity to deliver a solution. And then it’s really up to the stakeholders. Or then even at some point, maybe through escalation, the managers of the stakeholders to get this sorted.

And what I heard from a recent dinner of a director of talent acquisition, if, for instance, hiring managers do not really respond in a timely manner or provide a enough slots or are not aligned in the recruiting process, then they just close the role and say, it’s not, recruiting is not your priority. And sometimes they’re like, huh, yes, it is. It’s really urgent. No, but you don’t behave in a way that it’s prioritized. So I close this role and if these three things are sorted, then we open it up again. But then we need the service level agreement, this number of interviews, what you can commit to this clarity in terms of the scope of, because here you can see why it’s not working and why we cannot really add more resources to actually hire or attract candidates and interview them when we cannot convert them. It’s a bad experience for them, for us, and also for the company. I think these are all the things where you need to be bold and also first patient, but also very clear about what does a great hiring process look like. And then also making sure that you are at a stage and having a setup that you can deliver a great experience.

In case you like my show, please subscribe. I would really appreciate it.

But maybe what are for you the key touch points in a candidate experience.

Yeliz Castillo:
Yeah, so we touched this on already. I think there is definitely a difference with the, you reach out to a candidate as a company or as a recruiter, you know, if a candidate gets approached, I think there’s a bit of a different power game there, because if you reaching out to a candidate, then you really need to sell yourself to the candidate from the get go. You need to make sure that you really show the candidate that you’re interested in them and that you kind of win them over for yourself. Compared to when a candidate applies, it is obviously again, different because they show an initial interest to your company. And I think just to kind of match the interest, it’s very important that, for example, with the application process, it starts off with that, that we have not these old fashioned, you know, ten pages long forms to fill in, but that they really easy to use, user friendly, quick.

Thomas Kohler:
One click, ideally, just submit and then it’s synced with LinkedIn, for instance, already right.

Yeliz Castillo:
Exactly. I think it’s really bad to have these forms where, you know, you fill it in and then basically it’s the same information that’s already on your cv. I think that’s very, very frustrating for candidates. And I know this from my own experience. I used to like, as soon as I realized that I had to put all the information in again, I would stop applying. Like, I would literally not apply for that company because to me that says everything I need to know of you from the get go. It might be a bias, but it’s really off putting. Especially if we think of candidates who are maybe actively looking for a job and they applying to multiple positions.

It’s very frustrating and I think we just need to really appreciate the time from the get go of what it’s put into the application process. So definitely that’s one of the main touch points. I think that it starts off and then obviously the next point is then the interview stage. And that’s where all the magic happens. Again. Clear communication, a turnover, feedback up to three days. So it’s not just three days, it’s up to three days.

Thomas Kohler:
Also giving candidates feedback. Do you think it’s great for the experience and where do you think it’s also a bit maybe risky because some really just don’t take it good when you reject them and then also asking for feedback. And then, of course, some really do it for an honest learning experience and others just want to sue you because maybe you used a wrong word in the feedback and then it was harassing and then you pay a fine.

Yeah. I mean, again, this is also something that I think, you know, we always say feedback, but again, I think this is also very individual basis because. Because as you said, there are some candidates, they really need better, the positive or the constructive feedback and there are other ones that don’t care or don’t want it. I had this couple of times, actually, where I called people after a final or a second stage interview and they were like, well, you could have just sent me an email. Why did you call me for this? So I don’t think this is like a one way fits all process and I think you do a really good job there. I know that when you have people in the. In a process that you offer them that they can book a slot in with you to give them feedback and then you kind of leave them the option to get feedback if they want to, or if they don’t, then they just leave it. And I think that’s really great.

Thomas Kohler:
Yeah. But also just when they’re later on the stage. Right. If they passed maybe coming to a case study or to a final or maybe at least one or two calls down the road, because otherwise it’s just not feasible.

Yeliz Castillo:
Yeah, for sure. I think, you know, when, like, to me, the best approach is really like after the first interview, I always say that to all my candidates, you will receive an email and it’s a generic email that it didn’t work out. It’s nothing personal, it’s just a pool of applicants that we have and I think communication is very important. So they know that they will receive either an email, that is, when it was negative, or they will receive a phone call when it gets to the next stage to arrange the next stage. You know, I think it’s very simple as that. And I think everyone understands that you cannot send 100 million, you know, like, conversations. Yeah. But then I think after the second stage, when it gets to a hiring manager call, you know, when there is like an hour, one and a half hours of interviews, whatever, you know, for whatever reason, then I think it can get a bit more in detail because it is constructive. Right.

Thomas Kohler:
But I like the point that you say upfront that, hey, in case there is a rejection, you will get a generic email because then it’s not like, ah, what an experience. Again, they don’t care about me. Right. It’s about, hey, it was aligned, understood. I understand why. And they can still then ask. Right, so that’s really a great idea.

Yeliz Castillo:
Yeah. And that’s literally what I have been implementing for like the last one and a half years. And I get so many good feedbacks about that. They always say, like, oh, thank you so much for letting me know. And I always say as well, are you going to get a boring, you know, general generic email and from the system because we cannot provide that feed, like detailed feedback. And everyone, honestly, 100% of feedback rate is positive because then people know where they stand and they know it’s not personal and they know what’s expected, you know, because that’s how it works. But again, I think it’s just about how to communicate this or communicating it to candidates from the get go so they know what’s expected and then they don’t see you as any other company that just sends a generic email, you know, so, yeah.

Thomas Kohler:
And after, let’s say, the interview stage. What other touch points do you see for a great candidate experience?

Yeliz Castillo:
Yeah, so as I said, like, for the first interview as we covered, and then after the second and the third interview, I think then it gets really about getting detailed feedback. So that means that would mean that I would chase, like, detailed feedback from the hiring manager or from the next interviewer, whoever that is in the process, and really try to get that as soon as. I think here that the speed is very important because also, if you have a process where there are multiple candidates, it’s very easy for hiring managers also to get confused with candidates to maybe not remember vividly, or then they get maybe bias from other candidates in the meantime. So I think what I try to do, and that might be a bit annoying for some hiring managers, but again, I think this provides a good candidate experience, is really chase the feedback as soon as the interview is over, you know, just to give a little nudge and be like, okay, what is your impression? How was it? And the same thing goes for the candidate, by the way. I think as much as we want the feedback from hiring managers, it’s also very, very important to take in the candidate feedback, because this is always, for me, a two way process. Right. It’s not just companies interviewing candidates to see whether they’re a fit of. It should also be candidates exploring whether the company is a fit for them. Right.

Thomas Kohler:
And that’s also so important for market research. A lot of recruiters are just not quantifying the input that is received from the candidates, the market. And this can be so powerful for you as a recruiter that you suddenly get really hurt by every manager you work with because you cluster and you categorize what’s going on out there, what has direct implications on the managers trying to staff positions and also maybe scoping the right roles and providing the right incentives. Right.

Yeliz Castillo:
Exactly, and I think you can’t get better market insights than from the market itself, and that is the candidate, you know? And I think sometimes what you can also really gather from a candidate feedback is how the quality of the process really is, you know? And obviously, this has to be taken with a pinch of salt, and you can’t just jump on every word that’s been said. But if you have four or five candidates who, let’s say, complain about a hiring manager being late to their interview, then you know that there is an issue, and this is not something that maybe a hiring manager would tell you necessarily. And this is also not something that you could really monitor or figure out otherwise, but from the feedback. So I think again, that would be then another opportunity for you as a recruiter or as a company generally, whoever is in the hiring process to really enhance your interview process, slash your market, your branding in the market as an employer.

Thomas Kohler:
And actually every modern ATS can set up automatic service after a certain point is reached that you get certain feedback also gathered, right, with just a rating zero out of ten or how could you felt about certain things?

Yeliz Castillo:
Totally. But I mean, I think that that’s definitely there. But then I sometimes wonder, okay, how much really do people write something in there also when they’re in the beginning? Definitely, you know, then you have to also question, okay, they really want the job, and they don’t want to write anything negative because even if they maybe had not the best experience, but they might really want the job. So then I think this is where, you know, no matter how much AI or it or technology we use in this process, the human aspect really is what makes or breaks it. And I think this is one of the points where that comes really in when you build that relationship from the get go with the candidate to really figure out, okay, how was it? What’s your feedback? How did you feel about it? Also to, you know, not just from an interview perspective, but also from a potential blocker and that might occur from the candidate. Right. Because as I said, they usually have multiple processes from the get go. So if you know from the beginning how the candidate feels about your process, you’re in really advantage, you know, knowing and kind of leading the way throughout the process to whether the candidate will choose your job at the end or another one, you know. So, yeah, I think technology is great, but the human aspect is unbeatable in that point. Yeah.

Thomas Kohler:
In case you have any feedback or anything you want to share with me, please send me an email on thomas@pplwise.com or hit me up on LinkedIn. And in case you really enjoy the show, please subscribe. I would really appreciate it.

And I’m closing. So that’s also a piece where I think a candidate experience or the clarity and the speed really matters. So I think a good candidate experience, even if you don’t have the best job for certain attributes available for the candidate, this can also really make or break the decision for or against an offer. So what do you see? Get companies. What do companies get right and wrong when closing candidates?

Yeliz Castillo:
Yeah, I think there are two aspects. I think the personalization bit is really key here. You know, when companies make a candidate feel really that they want that person and that this person is not another number, you know, on their payroll or another resume in the application pool, but that you made them really feel they’re wanted and they bring value and they can really add something to the company and make a difference. I think that is one of the biggest encouragements for candidates to choose a company, apart obviously from the monetary bit or the development opportunities. But I think it’s more on a human level that is really important. And then the second point is personally, to me, definitely a conversation about the salary from the get go. I think this is something that companies do really wrong, putting candidates through a process and then at the end discussing the salaries. I think this is definitely something that is a 50 50 make or break that most candidates do drop out at the end.

And then the other aspect, I think is the pace of the process. So, you know, if you are quick and you really show that you want the person and you put everything together to make sure that the candidate gets the quickest offer or the quickest next interview stage, because you really want them to win for yourself and you don’t want them to go to anyone else and you kind of touch point on that during the conversation with them, I think this really makes a difference. I hear that feedback a lot from candidates where they’re like, oh, you know, I have this other process going on, but they’re so slow. And I really like that you put the effort into really get me to the next stage or that this has turned out so quick. So thank you so much for making it work or adjusting to that timeline. I think again, it’s really showing that you really want the candidate and you don’t just treat them as a number, but really as a person that they are as a valuable employee.

Thomas Kohler:
Yeah, definitely. And I think also what is important, what sometimes maybe is getting a bit forgotten that after a candidate started 1980 or even a year or days or a year, why not checking in for 15 minutes coffee chat and asking, hey, what was promised and what I pitched there and the expectations. I said, were there actually met or how far off have we been and why? And asking some questions around that and also asking afterwards for, hey, what could have we improved? Because then I think you’re a bit settled after 90 days in a company, you maybe then really get realistic feedback because it’s not, as you said, I want a job, I’m a bit careful and therefore overly nice. This is usually then not the case anymore. And then you more get clarity in terms of information. And this is something what I can just recommend for a recruiter out there. It’s time consuming. It needs a bit of organization to just set timers or schedule in that time. I hired this candidate. Okay. In 90 days, I reach out and also then mentioning it, hey, after 90 days, would you be open to go through dead questions? Right. That’s a really powerful experience.

Yeliz Castillo:
For sure, and that is then the bit that goes into retention. Right. Because it’s not just important to win people for yourself, but keep them and. Yeah, I guess that’s a discussion for another day.

Thomas Kohler:
Yes. So what are the key takeaways for employers then, to provide a great candidate experience?

Yeliz Castillo:
Yeah, I think just focus on communication, be transparent and, yeah, show your value as a human being. And I think the main thing for me is treat everyone the way you want it to be treated, you know, as whether you are a candidate, a hiring manager. It doesn’t matter on which side you sit. I think we all are at one point candidates and we all can, you know, become hiring managers. I think it’s just about treating everyone and giving a process and providing a process that you also want for yourself or for your loved ones.

Thomas Kohler:
Thanks, great take. Thank you so much. And was a really insightful conversation. Thanks, Liz.

Yeliz Castillo:
Thank you.