Mastering Executive Transitions with Namid Nazemian

Thomas Kohler:
I’m really happy that we can do this episode. Andreas Schmitz connected us and we will talk about a few interesting topics today. How you became self employed and are a very successful consultant and coach now after a corporate career and also more insights about your book and also the transition. So I’m really looking forward to this. You’re sitting in the Emirates, I guess, right? But maybe we start with a quick introduction about yourself.

Navid Nazemian:
For sure. For sure. First off, thank you so much, for welcoming me to your show. It’s a real honor and pleasure to be part of the podcast. And yes, our good old friend Andrea Schmitz had me as a guest on his show and he said, hey, I think you and Thomas should connect and speak. So yeah, how do I introduce myself? I’m a former HR executive. I spent 26 years of my wonderful life working for some of the world’s most admired companies. And I did that at the country, at the region, or at the global level.

And it was in the year 22 when my wonderful book launched and to my surprise, and I think it’s fair to say, also to my publisher’s surprise, it became a number one new release on Amazon on its first day of, of being launched and it became a bestseller in the US, became a bestseller in Germany, Switzerland, UK and by now it’s an international bestseller. And just a fun fact.

Thomas Kohler:
How did you do that?

Navid Nazemian:
Yeah. Wow. That’s a, that’s a long story. Friday, five weeks ago, my book was on the number one rank on Amazon not once, not twice, but three times. So this is three years and five months after the original launch.

Thomas Kohler:
So it’s Mastering Executive Transitions. Is it this book? Right?

Navid Nazemian:
Correct. Yes. Yes.

Thomas Kohler:
Why did you write it? What was the idea behind it?

Navid Nazemian:
So I always felt, and I still believe that every single person has at least one book inside them. So that’s a belief that I’ve held for a long time. So it wasn’t really a new idea that I wanted to write a book. I just wasn’t too sure if I’m ready for, for writing the book. And it took me seven years, which clearly shows that I wasn’t entirely ready. But I’m glad I did it because I took my time with the book and I really went deep on the research side and I went really heavy on practical implementation side of the same. So I really wanted to create a book that is here to stay and I’m really, really happy to see that. Touching with by all standards and rankings and KPIs, it seems to be doing Exceptionally well.

Thomas Kohler:
Nice. And what is the main, I would say, content. So who is it for and what can you get out of it?

Navid Nazemian:
Sure. So the book is written for three different audiences, so any one of these audiences would actually benefit from reading my book and thinking about the practical implementation side of it. The first one is executive leaders, of which I supported many in my HR roles over the 20 years, but I obviously was an executive leader myself. So that’s kind of the first leadership and audience for the book. The second one is HR leaders and or talent directors, someone who’s in charge of the transition process in a larger organization. And the third audience are coaches like myself, who want to go all in to have the latest research, the latest knowledge, and the latest applicable tools to their coaching transition practice. So those are kind of the three audiences that would benefit from reading my book.

Thomas Kohler:
Nice. And you were 26 years in the corporate world, and you also had a great career trajectory there. Right. So I believe that you have been in a very great position. You were settled, good salary, and then you quit and start by yourself. Why?

Navid Nazemian:
Yeah, that’s a good question that my wife asked me at the time as well. Are you really sure? Which was her way to say, you are completely out of your mind. Well, well, a few reasons. One is I really felt that I probably have jumped ship after 25 years. I feel 25 years is a long time to give to anything unless it’s your marriage or your child. So. So 20 quarter of a century just feels like a good period of time to say goodbye to something. But we had the pandemic that kind of delayed my plans for two years.

That’s the first thing. The second thing is, at some point, we all have our vision boards. We all have our what? One day I would love to do this and I would love to do that. And I really saw with my own parents, who both have passed away by now, how quickly you start to deteriorate at a higher age, and you just don’t see that coming. Right. So that was the second thing in the back of my mind. But I think that the strongest push, or I would like to say pull, was the publishing of my book. Thomas.

I mean, I had random people sending me a LinkedIn message to say, hey, we got our leadership conference coming up on this date. Can you come and do a speech for our top leaders? I had people like yourself. This is the 42nd podcast. I’ve been invited to speak as a guest in the 39 months since the book has launched. So my run rate is more than one a month to say, hey, can you come on my show? And I would love to connect you with my audience. And I just realized that having a full time executive role is not going to allow me to do these things. And then the last part of it was I’ve been coaching on the side for about seven and a half years. So I’ve been a coach now for 11 years and I had a wait case of about a year.

So let’s say if you wanted to work with me as your coach, I would have to kindly ask you to be patient for about 12 months until I could sign you up. Because as I said, I had my day job and that was a full on role. I mean, in my last role I was in charge of HR for the finance function globally at Vodafone. That included supporting, from an HR point of view, 27,000 employees in 24 countries. Right. And so it was not like, oh well, I come in at 9 and I finished my job at 5 and all is fine. It was a full on role. And so that means that I could only coach three leaders at the time.

And so when the book launched and I had all these love and interest and excitement coming my way, I thought to myself, if not now, when? And it just felt the right time with everything else that I had broadly planned in the background to jump ship and do this more full time and be serious about, you know, doing what I love doing on the side now full time.

Thomas Kohler:
So I hear two things at some point. A realization that time is limited and second also opportunity. But still you need to make the decision and go for it because I bet that you did not make more money with your book than with your corporate salary because I think that just takes time to build that up. And second, what I see is that you started already 11 years ago when you said coaching and you had a wait list there. Right. And I think what a lot of executives say at some point, when I do all my executive dinners and so on, that they are not sure about the next step. Do they want to do it again? Do they want to be all involved with the dynamics what a corporate executive role brings with. Right.

There are bond politics, there are strategies, tactics, allies. You not just need to do your job. Don’t you want to spend your time differently? Maybe at some point, right? So this is, I think what a lot of people realize and maybe also at some point they made some money and they don’t need more to have a better life, for instance. Right. So then these questions come. But of course you still need money and you still need an income. So how do you really be tactical and strategic about it? So maybe let’s go back 11 years before kicking it off. What was your realization or what was your trigger in just saying, hey, I do something on top of it, on top of my corporate job and I bet that you were already busy with your full time job.

Navid Nazemian:
Yes, yes, As a matter of fact, I waited for two years. So first thing, I was always intrigued by the outcomes of transformational coaching. Really, what can a great coach achieve with a great client over a relatively short period of time? If you think of it, six or 12 months is really not that long. Having 10 or 20 sessions is all there is that you get as a coach in the 6 or 12 months time period. But. But then if the results are phenomenal, that was always my intrigue, that was always my fascination with what actually happens in the room. I mean, I was the HR leader and this is a true story. We had a leader that had nominated someone in his department, he was the sales director at the time to become his successor.

This was the succession management planning meeting as an executive committee team. And Thomas, the minute he spoke out the name of the gentleman, hell broke out in that room because essentially half of the room that had an opinion on that gentleman that he was nominating as his own successor had a strong vote against that individual. And so, you know, I won’t, I won’t share those words with you, but like over my dead body or the equivalent of that. Now I had to step in to say, look, nobody is questioning the actual performance of that individual. Right. And know what? He was because he was a strong, the strongest salesperson in the entire company. Would you be happy if I got him to work with someone to help with his leadership side of his performance? Sure. Assuming nothing is going to Change Anyway anyhow, 12 months later, and I kid you not, Thomas, I’m sitting in the same room with two exceptions.

Everyone else was the same participants as the year prior. That guy was a little nervous to share again the same name because he saw like guns being pulled out and shooter shooting at him. And when he did that, two of the gentlemen who said a year ago over my dead body were actually questioning whether that role is good enough for someone like that or whether we should think something bigger outside of our tiny country here. So. And you tell me what happened in the room with that coach and I was not the coach. Right. What happened in the room between a leader and a coach over 20 sessions that really transformed his leadership now that was my intrigue and that’s why I wanted to become a coach, not necessarily to become a full time coach. I never imagined that to be the case.

And as a matter of fact, the first three years of my coaching journey I was the only in house coach. So I gave away my coaching for free. Yeah, to Vodafone leaders, because that’s all I had. And so my idea about training myself to become a coach was always that it makes me a better leader, a better listener and a better human being. That was always my excitement and interest about that. Not necessarily to say goodbye to corporate life and become a full time coach.

Thomas Kohler:
Definitely. But still, I think a lot of people are afraid, right? Even if the value is there, they maybe get opportunities, they get messages on LinkedIn. I see a lot of executives, they just don’t even respond to recruiting requests or head hunting requests. And I think a big first step could be, or even a small that could turn out being a big step. Just respond, take the call and not. And be very clear that you’re not looking for the next full time gig, but you’re available maybe for consulting on the side. And this is my limitations. I have a full time job, this is priority.

But one to five hours a week, if it’s planned out well, can work. And this is my day rate. Be my guest. Because sometimes a lot of companies hire executives and target executives in hiring which they don’t even can utilize fully. Right. Because they are too big for the role, for instance, but still a fraction of their knowledge and Expertise could really 10x decision making. And I think there you just don’t need to be in this employee mindset of saying no, I’m not allowed or no, no when I do it and I want to do it right and I want to do it fully. Why yes, yes, why not being opportunistic enough there.

So how did you start and how also did it impact your income? Because you said you had a family, right. And you were, I think, I think the main provider of everything, right. From salary standpoint and income stepping. So okay, can you walk us through this, this process and what’s actually happening here? Of course, whatever you can share, but I think that’s really interesting as well to others.

Navid Nazemian:
So the first thing I want to say is on the day I decided it’s time to jump ship and I agreed everything with my employer and I worked my notice and all that, I made a big announcement on LinkedIn to say and at the time I had, I believe 7,000 followers, something like That I said, look, it’s time for me to say goodbye. I had a very catchy image with Burj Khalifa behind me and the Vodafone speech mark. So kind of split image. One is to say gratitude and thank you and the other one is the future is the best is yet to come is my hashtag. And I also announced on LinkedIn to my only 7,000 followers at the time. I think it was actually 3,000, 3000 followers when I jumped ship that I am open for business. And those of you who had maybe considered working with me and were scared by what I’m not going to wait for a year to work with this guy are welcome to hit me up. And I kid you not, I actually took out the entire summer as a relaxing time.

I mean, after 26 years of being in a hamster wheel, I mean, you need a month or two just to relax and wind down. And it wasn’t so much of a relaxing because we also moved house, we moved country, we moved continent, we moved everything. We had to find a new school for my son, all those things anyway. But it was good that I didn’t do work work during those two months. So I had only left of 22. September, October, November, December. Four months, right? Now, hear my words. In those four months, I earned more than I earned as a full time executive and a full time expat.

I was an internship assignee in London. The company paid for everything, the housing, the schooling, the nanny, the this, the that, the car, the pension, the shares, the everything in those four months. So I thought to myself, oh my goodness, this is just some lucky. You know, sometimes people win the lottery. I just won the lottery. That’s what I thought of it then. I had 23, which was a full year, right? 12 months. I actually only worked 10 months any given year.

So you take one month out in the summer, you take December out and that gets you to 10 months. In those 10 months, or slash, 12 months, I earned clearly more than I earned in the four months and I had 24, which was again better than 23. So what I can now say with a degree of confidence is that what am I, what, what I am doing clearly seems to be valued by the organizations and the leaders that come to me. And of course the book says is a part of that, but it’s a very small part of that total income that by far the biggest, more than 80% of that is the pure coaching that I do.

Thomas Kohler:
And then you have maybe more freedom, but of course you also have commitments, right? Towards customers and clients. And you just need to deliver. And there is nobody that can say what you have to do. Right. You choose by yourself, but it needs to work. And people need to value that by paying the right price. Right? And also you need to write the right amount to match that. But you did it right? So you made more money, you had more freedom. But what about the fears?

Navid Nazemian:
Yeah, well, the fears started to fade away as soon as I saw that I am doing what I love doing. And not only that, it’s liberating. I mean, Thomas, I. I cannot tell you. And this is not about Vodafone or Adidas or GE or any of the companies I used to work for. You do have this thing called politics in any organization. Nobody likes to admit it, but it’s a reality. I have zero politics in my life. And I’ve had it for almost three years now. I have zero meaningless meetings. Can you believe how many meetings I had in my diary that I had No control over?

Thomas Kohler:
100%.

Navid Nazemian:
They were just put in. And you better show up because this sponsor, this stakeholder, this senior guy wants to see you there. Well, okay, Sure, I better show up. I have none of that. And the best part is, and I’ve actually had two clients that I’ve turned down in the three years now. One, I questioned his coachability. And you know, my. My kind of coaching is all about getting results for the client.

And if I feel already in the chemistry session that they’re not really in it, I might as well say no. And the other one, because he was so disrespectful towards his own dark reports in our chemistry conversation. And I thought, I can’t work for someone like that. I have now the privilege to be able to say no to those clients. Whereas before I was a generalist in hr, it was like forced marriage. Meet your new business partner. And I’m thinking, oh, my God, out of all the leaders we have in the company, I’m supposed to work with this one. Well, that’s just what it is. It’s a corporate thing. Yeah. You never get to pick your boss.

Thomas Kohler:
I can also say the same. So I think what was really great recently, I think one or two years ago, I started doing it. I cut every one on one. I don’t have one on ones, but everybody can call me anytime and specifically go through a certain agenda with me. Even if it’s the night, if it’s the morning, if it’s on WhatsApp, if it’s a Google hangout. But I don’t do this, just sitting there waiting and let’s talk about something just that we talk. Right, but everybody can have direct access and just call me up because that’s relevant. And then really I rather spend my time outside in nature than sitting in this meeting and just doing it because not really questioning why. Okay, but let’s switch topics. How do you get into the C suite?

Navid Nazemian:
Yeah, well, that’s a big, big question. And there are multiple ways how one can do that. I actually did that as part of a project when I was working for Rush, the pharmaceutical company based out of Switzerland. So I went around and interviewed the most senior 100 leaders at the time. Rush had 85,000 employees. So this is like you’re less than top 1% of the total company. And I, there was no chatgpt at the time, sadly. So I had to do that all manually.

And I wasn’t quite sure what’s going to come out of it, but. But it just so happened that what I then came up with. So I read through all those qualitative interview answers and then tried to theme them into something that makes sense. And I came up with 12 themes. Actual experiences that leaders need to have in order to be considered for their top positions. And the three dimensions were the business domain, the people domain, and the self development domain. And underneath each one of those were four experiences. So this became the experience map.

It actually won two awards because of the pragmatic practical application of it and because it was really done based on research. I didn’t just guess what people must do in order to get to the top. I actually went and interviewed top 100 leaders and that’s how I arrived to that conclusion. So yeah, there are many things leaders can do in a more systematic way to help them break into the C suite. And although that wasn’t one of the 12 experiences, I can certainly say that working with the right coach can also be a game changer for those leaders as well.

Thomas Kohler:
But what are attributes, what you can see that really work and help to get into The C Suite? One is system systematic approach. So this is what I can also think. It’s, it’s really a pro that you are organized, systematic and you are able to, to build systems and see them. What else do you think is there?

Navid Nazemian:
Yes. So bear in mind when I did this exercise, I was not chasing for attributes or anything in particular. I was just curious to hear what is the route to the top job. That’s all I cared about. So I wasn’t necessarily looking for, oh, what are the top 10 competencies of, you know, breaking into the C suite or anything like that. So if I wanted to share some more concrete examples with you in terms of the three areas I just mentioned to you. Right. I did mention to you that this is something that is very concrete.

So when I say the business domain. Right. One of the key areas for leaders to develop was to understand the commercial aspect of the business. Now this may sound simple to you, but the reality is, especially in what I call support function. So this is hr, finance, it, communication, legal. Right. It’s not common and certainly not the case that every one of those people actually spends time understanding the value drivers of this business that I’m working for. So that’s the first one.

The second one is that you need to work with a variety of client groups. Right. So if I look back at my own career, I worked with commercial leaders, I’ve worked with scientists, I work with functional leaders, I work with all sorts of different type leaders because guess what, they each will challenge me in a different way. And that’s going to keep myself sharp and on my toes. One of the other experiences that came up was international experience, meaning living and working in different countries. So I am privileged in that I have been living and working in five countries and I call now the UAE home for the second time. But I may have as well just been based in one country and still kind of made my career. And then the other aspect was to work in a variety of business scenarios.

Right. I remember when I worked in Western Europe all my corporate life and then had my first assignment into the Middle East, I was really lost for ideas as to how to grow a company because all I had done before was to kind of keep it flat, maybe grow it by 1% or decline by 3%. But I’d never ramped up a company. So when I joined BAT in Iran, at the time the company had 70 people on the, on the payroll. And by the time I left the role 2 1/2 years ago, after that we had a thousand people. Right. So how do you go from 70 to 1000? I never did that before. So working in different business scenarios also helps you to stay sharp.

And so 100%, these are just some ideas as to how leaders can work on concrete experiences, accumulate them over time so that as and when they are ready to move up, they are considered for those kind of top moves.

Thomas Kohler:
Okay, then I try to summarize. So overall, some helping, let’s say factors to get into the C suites are first of all, being and staying Sharp understanding the commercial side of the business, the value drivers. Then having a diverse experience with working with different functions or groups and leaders within these groups within a company in order to stay sharp again. Right. Also get coaching and be able to see and build systems.

Navid Nazemian:
Yes, yes. And gain international perspectives by.

Thomas Kohler:
And gain influential perspective.

Navid Nazemian:
Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Thomas Kohler:
Yes. Yeah. Totally makes sense. And what are the biggest mistakes you see when you are in the C suite?

Navid Nazemian:
Oh wow. That’s a big topic. So the first thing I see is when I start working with a leader that may not be fully convinced on the people side. Right. So they are great with the business side. They get the numbers, they get the value drivers, they’re great with customers, all that. It will eventually dawn on them that they could sit in that corner office, beautiful views over the city for as long as they want. If they don’t have the right team, not much is going to happen.

Right. And that’s sometimes a hard realization. So that’s. If I were to point out just one thing that a lot of leaders underestimate as and when they make it into the C suite is that you can be as good as you are. You’re only as good as you are. And so you need a whole army of people to help you move in the right direction and to execute all the wonderful strategies and the blue picture sky thinking you have in your mind. So that’s, that’s the one. The other one I want to cite is actually from a fellow transition coach.

His name is Dr. Ty Wiggins. He’s a search for a partner with Russell Reynolds. He just published his own book. I met him here in Dubai called the new CEO. And he has interviewed I don’t know how many CEOs. I think it’s over 100 or so. And he asked him the question, what is your biggest regret? And believe it or not, Thomas, in hindsight, obviously like he interviewed them a year after they had been appointed CEO, first time CEO and the by far, I don’t know what the percentage is, 60% or so cited.

The biggest regret being that they didn’t move quickly enough to replace one or two leadership team members. Although they had significant doubt, they just didn’t feel it’s the right thing to do. Or they wanted to give them more time or they wanted to be more fair, they wanted to be whatever and only to realize that all they collected was incremental data points to something they inherently knew to be true three or four months into the role. So that is by far the biggest regret of CEOs. Who don’t move quickly on one or two team members, especially those that they have significant doubt as to whether they can deliver what they want them to do.

Thomas Kohler:
Great. We need to wrap up. Thank you so much, Navid. So what we will do, we will add the links to your book and everything in the show notes and then everybody can connect and follow you from there on. Thank you so much.

Navid Nazemian:
Thank you, Thomas. My pleasure.