Navigating Mental Health in Modern Society with Mathew Middlemass

Yeliz Castillo:
Hi, Matt.

Mathew Middlemass:
Hi, Liz. How are you?

Yeliz Castillo:
Good, thanks. How are you?

Mathew Middlemass:
Yeah, I’m good. On this gray, rainy UK day.

Yeliz Castillo:
True, we had such good weather so far and today is the day, but it’s okay, you know, we have our inner sunshine.

Mathew Middlemass:
Yeah, exactly that. And the plants need it. Let’s think about plants and we’ll think about nature. And obviously back to duties as normal, hopefully in a couple of days time. Back to summer.

Yeliz Castillo:
Exactly. Well, so nice to have you. Thank you for being here. I am going to start off by saying that it’s lovely that we get to do this. We have worked together before and I’m really excited about this topic that we will be talking about today because I know you’re very passionate about it and I have watched you being such a good role model within that as well back in our days at asos. So, yeah, I will start off without saying much more about why mental health is so important to you.

Mathew Middlemass:
I think it’s so important because we all have mental health, right. And this is what people forget. I think it’s really easy to think that mental health are just. Is just associated with mental health conditions or people who maybe are going through a different difficult period in their life. But actually it’s more than that. We all have mental health and we all have kind of varying degrees of mental health, if that makes sense. So there’ll be times that we are all feeling great and there’ll be times that we’re not feeling so great. And that can be due to kind of environmental impacts.

It can be due to kind of a difficult period in your life, whether it’s a life event or it can just be something kind of like biological. So kind of chemical imbalances. There’s a number of different kind of factors that play into it, but I think it’s really easy to see it as just a small group of people who maybe are suffering. But I think everyone suffers to a certain extent. You know, if you have one day when you’re worrying about things a little bit or, you know, you’re feeling very flat, that is mental health. And I think actually recognizing that and kind of really kind of leaning into that as a kind of a human race, I think is really important because actually we’re. We’re kind of taking away the stigma and also normalizing actually having conversations around mental health.

Yeliz Castillo:
Totally. And I think it’s also, you know, there is always the stigma around, you know, when you have mental health problems, you leave them at home, you know, and then when you’re at work, you just kind of have to be this perfect Persona almost and leave your, you know, whatever issues you have outside of it. And I think this is the problem most of the time, right? Especially now when work, when there is not such a barrier between work and home anymore like they used to be. Obviously, with being flexible, I work fully remote, you know, so I know, you know, it’s sometimes difficult. So what would you say has been the trend? And I’m not saying trendy as in, like, you know, what. What’s happening, but, like, where do you see the trend within mental health has changed over the last couple of years? Maybe even before COVID and after Covid?

Mathew Middlemass:
I think we are in a much better place. I think people kind of recognize the challenges that we all face as a society around mental health. There’s still work to be done, for sure. So I think kind of the trends and the kind of the way, kind of the mental health movement is kind of moving, if you, like, is moving in the right direction, I think. And that’s really important to note. But I think also we need to note that actually there’s still a lot of work to be done. You know, when we look at local governments and kind of like health providers, whichever territory you’re based within, whichever country you’re based within, I think it’s safe to say that kind of almost all of them are facing challenges around being able to kind of really lean in to some of the mental health challenges that we face. And I think actually some of that really comes from a history of actually not even speaking or recognizing any kind of the mental health challenges that we naturally have as humans.

And I think maybe if you think back to the 80s and 90s and maybe even the early 2000s, there was so much taboo around mental health. You know, if someone was down or anxious or they had maybe what was known as, like, a mental health condition or kind of like a neurodiverse like myself. I’m neurodiverse. They were kind of really seen as kind of someone who’s got a problem and maybe not mainstream society, but actually kind of where we are now is we’ve recognized that actually that’s not the case. There is actually a lot of work to be done. We all have accountability. Everyone kind of has their own mental health challenges and actually, you know, really leaning in is the right place to be. But, you know, there’s gonna.

It’s gonna take a lot of time for kind of health bodies, if you like, to really play catch up and put the right measures in place to support now there’s kind of, it’s kind of a little bit more mainstream. I guess one of the challenges and one of the things that I think is disappointing is a lot of, I think when I’m talking about the UK government here, for example, and I’m sure there’s lots of similar situations in other governments, but they kind of put a lot of the emphasis on employers to really lean in and kind of put measures in place to support their workforce. And I think that’s good to a certain extent because employers have a duty of care. But I also don’t think it’s just employers that should be leaning in. I think obviously the government need to really kind of step up in terms terms of the mental health resources and the funding. And I know there’s obviously challenges, but there needs to be more because I think at the moment, you know, we’re looking at kind of a bit of a crisis, I think, in terms of mental health, particularly with young people.

Yeliz Castillo:
Totally. And what would you say is the reason why this has increased so much or we are in the crisis of mental health?

Mathew Middlemass:
Do you know what? That’s such an interesting question. I think there’s a number of different things. I think one is that we’re talking about it more. So I think it’s always been there, but rather than actually people having to hide away, people are talking about it a little bit more and they’re wanting to seek help and they’re wanting to go on that journey of self improvement or you know, really taking accountability and responsibility for their own mental health. And I think that’s really important. Yeah, I think it’s, it’s definitely around kind of some of the kind of accountability. But I think there’s other factors as well that come into play and I think one of them being social media. And I think that is a lot, it’s a lot to do with comparing yourself to other people through social media and through kind of different kind of avenues there.

And also I just think modern day life is stressful. I find it really stressful. I’m like always kind of making profound statements like is this normal? Should we be running from one thing to another? Why are we, why do I always feel under so much pressure? Is everyone else like this or is it just me? And I think that definitely plays a part in it. I think kind of modern day society is super fast paced. We’re living in not just local economy, economies now we’re living in a global economy. So there’s a lot of pressure to really kind of keep up with kind of social life, kind of home life, work life, family life, and to be seen as being successful as well.

Yeliz Castillo:
I think that’s so true. I, and I’m guilty of this myself, right? Like, I have decided back in 2021 that I do not want to be on any social media platforms because of this, because I really…

Mathew Middlemass:
Amen. Don’t blame you.

Yeliz Castillo:
Honestly, like, I deleted my Instagram, I deleted my like, tick tock. I can’t remember if it was really blown up by then already, but like anything that was really soaking me into a complete different world that didn’t exist, right, I just deleted. The only thing I have now is literally LinkedIn. And even there, right, sometimes you look at people’s profiles, you know, and not in a envious way, but you just always see what you haven’t done yet or what you still have to, you know, achieve or what’s still on your list and you’re not there yet. And all these things, right? Like, it’s crazy and I really catch myself and I’m trying also to be really aware of, you know, the thoughts I sometimes put in my mind or they just come up, you know, without even wanting to, like, I just look at something and then I’m like, oh, wow, you know, I should have been there or why am I not there yet? You know, Like, I think also because biologically our brain is, you know, a negative co partner in, in our body, you know, and to try to keep us safe, of course, but it is a challenge. And, and I, and I also think, like, as you said, like, young people, I think, suffer even more so because in our time, right, when we were younger, not that we’re old now, but when we’re a bit younger, when we were growing up, there wasn’t such a thing. So you really had the chance to focus on yourself. You get, would get inspired by people who did it before you, you know, and, and you could look up to them and, and it was more like an inspirational thing.

I think now the environment has become more like a competition almost. You know, you constantly compare yourself. You constantly have 100 million examples online in front of you that this could have been your life or you could have been here, or you could have been this, but you’re not there yet, right? So how do you deal with that on a daily basis?

Mathew Middlemass:
Yeah, I, you know, I think that’s, Yeah, I completely hear all the points you’ve just made. Like, I, I feel, I feel that as well, to my core. I think, I think it’s around stepping away from the kind of the digital world. We say that now as we’re on a podcast, but, you know, I think it is around making sure that you’re kind of controlling screen time, if you like. Because I think back to when I was younger, like, to your point earlier, like, I was just out cycling my bike and just kind of out with my friends the whole time. And I think there’s something to be said for healthy dopamine hits in your own head, which, you know, when we talk about healthy dopamine, we talk about nature, we talk about laughing with your friends, we talk about happy stuff, you know, just stuff that’s not necessarily stuff that’s more natural, if that makes sense. And then you talk about cheap dopamine hits, and that is the social media side of things. That is, like, to your point earlier, it’s posting something and getting loads of likes, which is cheap.

It’s. It comes quickly and it goes quickly. And I think, you know, kind of that is addictive in itself. And, you know, you can get kind of wrapped into this kind of, like, digital world, which isn’t necessarily the real world. And I think that is a problem. I think, you know, making sure that, you know, we’re really nurturing our young people, making sure they’re stepping away from kind of social media or kind of just digital, like gaming, whatever it is, and actually kind of living in the real world and being out in nature will really kind of help to train their brain to be able to produce dopamine for the stuff that matters, the stuff that’s natural rather than actually, you know, kind of feel like you need to kind of get these dopamine hits from social media, which is cheap and addictive, I think.

Yeliz Castillo:
Yeah, so addictive. I mean, I sometimes catch myself, you know, even on LinkedIn, to scroll and scroll.

Mathew Middlemass:
Yeah.

Yeliz Castillo:
And then it’s like, oh, my God, like, half an hour, an hour gone. Right. And I could have been so productive in that meantime. But no, totally. And you don’t even realize, like, how it. How much it consumes you. And I think these boundaries are so difficult to implement because, as you said, like, you know, we’re sitting here now having a remote digital podcast. Right.

My work is fully remote. Like, I’m constantly on a laptop. Constantly. You know, I work on LinkedIn. And I’m sure it’s the same for you. Right? Or, like, even if you have a quick break, then you just, you know, want to get your brain out of work, maybe, or distract yourself. What you do you take your phone and just scroll just like, you know, aimlessly almost. So what would you say are good ways, or maybe you do that as well yourself. Good ways to, to implement boundaries, you know. Still work in it and use it but have a boundary.

Mathew Middlemass:
Yeah, I mean this is easier said than done. But I’m really good, I’m quite good at giving advice. Not necessarily taking it myself, but I think there’s a few different things. I think at the end of the day when I’ve been kind of on my laptop all day and working, I try to get out for a walk and I think that’s really important because it kind of signals the end of the day for me. I’m like, that’s it, I’m not doing anything more work wise. And actually, you know, when the weather’s lovely, that’s great. When the weather’s not so nice, not as easy. But you know, I think actually just breaking it up and kind of getting out in nature, kind of trying to really reconnect and actually not go on your phone when you’re on that walk as well, I think it’s really easy to be, you know, I see it, you know, all the time around me like going, going on walks with friends or other people walking and then they’re just on their phone.

It’s like you might as well stay at home. You should just really be present and taking that surroundings. I look at it like it’s going to sound really hippie now. I’m a little bit of it, but I look at the trees and just take in and look at nature and kind of really just think, oh my God, this is crazy. Like we’re one little small person in this whole universe. This whole kind of grand universe is there and it kind of puts everything into perspective. I think so. I think it’s that, I think it’s being strict with yourself in terms of saying, actually that’s enough now, I’m not going to sit there and scroll.

And to your point earlier that scrolling and scrolling is something I do sometimes and I’ve had therapy as a lot of people have, and I think it’s great. I think that’s another important thing. But they call that doom scrolling. And doom scrolling is something where you just scroll through social media until you find something you don’t like or until you find something that upsets you or annoys you in a lot of cases. And actually if you think back to most of the times that you want social media, yeah, some people just stop if they get interrupted or Whatever. But there’s a lot of people that just scroll until they see something that’s annoyed them or made them feel rubbish about themselves. And then at that point they’re like, oh, I’m not doing this anymore. Put it down.

But that’s too late. By that point, you’ve already done that, you’ve impacted your own mood. So it’s actually making sure that you kind of don’t get into that situation. And also to your point as well, it’s taking breaks from social media. So sometimes I’m feeling a little bit overwhelmed or think, oh, God, I’m a little bit kind of too. In the social media world. I will just delete my apps and I’ll take time off. A month or four, whatever, two weeks, even.

Even a week. And actually it really makes a difference. And also not just scrolling. Soon as you get up in the morning is so easy just to wake up, your alarm goes off, you kind of come to and then you just go into your phone, you go to Instagram, you scroll through stories, you start looking at what everyone’s been up to. You because you’re nosy or whatever. Doing that first thing in the morning is not great. It’s good to get up in the morning, you know, go down, have your coffee, have a minute away and really take some time to collect your thoughts and have a think about what you want to achieve in that day. But again, that is easier said than done. But I think trying to do that, or at least be mindful of that is a step in the right direction.

Yeliz Castillo:
Totally, to the point where you said taking your phone and you know, first thing in the morning and scrolling. I actually heard this and had this conversation with my husband the other day where you know someone. I think it was Mel Robbins. I don’t know if you know her. I think she said that once.

Mathew Middlemass:
Oh, yes, I do know her. Yeah.

Yeliz Castillo:
It’s like taking your phone in the first thing in the morning is like. And scrolling through social media is like letting 20 people come into your room and talk at you. That’s literally how your brain apparently feels overloaded. It’s just waking up and you’re just like overloading it with information and also unnecessary information. Right. Like it’s not.

Mathew Middlemass:
Yeah.

Yeliz Castillo:
Thing that you really need to see or, you know, it doesn’t add any value to you. So. And that always sticks to my mind where I catch myself sometimes, you know, to. To have just a quick look or I just want to check a message or whatever, and then I’m already in it. And this is why now I started implementing to not have my phone in my room. So I sleep literally with my, like with no technology in the room and we have all our phones and whatever in, in the office. And also in the morning when you then hear the alarm, you have to actually wake up physically and you know, room to turn it off. And that really helps.

Yeliz Castillo:
So this is definitely one thing I do. But obviously. So it’s, it’s very, very difficult to implement that self discipline sometimes because it’s so easy and so comfortable. Right. Just staying in bed and scroll. Yeah, so.

Mathew Middlemass:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And my alarm’s on my phone. So you’re right. Maybe it’s actually rewinding things and actually bringing it back to the old school. We’ve got a little alarm clock and something that’s kind of a little bit different and actually removing yourself. Because we live so much of our lives through our phones. Like everything for me is on my phone. Like my banking’s on my phone.

Like my, you know, social media is there. My alarms on my phone, I have reminders on my phones. My emails are on my phones, my messages. You know, it’s crazy really, to be honest.

Yeliz Castillo:
Everything. It’s crazy how, you know, like, forget social media. I think even the fact that we’re addicted to our phones, like, like, honestly, it’s almost like I wouldn’t be able to function fully without it because everything is on it. And everything I need, whether that’s a, I don’t know, a password to something or, you know, I don’t know, like a note or a reminder or a birthday or whatever it’s like on there. Back in the day, I remember when I was younger, I used to know the numbers of the closest people around me.

Mathew Middlemass:
Yeah, same. I still remember that.

Yeliz Castillo:
Yeah, exactly. I still remember those two. But that’s it. I have not learned any other numbers since then.

Mathew Middlemass:
No, no. I know.

Yeliz Castillo:
Because it’s so easy, isn’t it? Like there is nothing for your brain really to keep all those things. And I think this is also an issue that we become, you know, it’s almost like society makes us dependent on it. So we really fall into this consumer behavior. You know, we’re like, you must like left, right and center. Whether we’re consuming things online with the phone or even taking the phone to consume things out. Like, I also need my phone now to pay things. Like, I don’t know, last time I had something, cash.

Mathew Middlemass:
I know.

Yeliz Castillo:
You know, everything is digitally has its benefits for sure, but also of course, its downside. So yeah, but getting back to your point with comparison, can I ask you if you want to share, what would you say, and I think this might help anyone who listens to it. Is there anything specific, specific that you compare yourself to or where you look at things and you feel like, hey, is that just me, you know, or why am I not there? And I’m asking deliberately because I think sometimes what happens a lot is that we think it’s just us and we just have that problem and everyone else has it all sorted and you know, has it all, but it’s just me, you know, so I’d love to like to share the both, like from the both of us, things that we compare ourselves to or it’s a bit vulnerable.

Mathew Middlemass:
Yeah, no, no, it’s fine, I’m happy to share. So I think for me it’s career. So, you know, when you look at kind of like your former colleagues or former uni students who are your peers and your friends and you look at some of their job titles or their careers, it’s easy to think, oh God, am I behind where I should be? But you know, the long and short of it is, is as my friend often says to me, paddle your own canoe. So make your own decisions and actually live your life at your own pace. But also don’t forget that actually, you know, say if I’m ahead of talent management, for example, for kind of a large successful business. But you know, so there’s a lot of people I see, oh God, they’re directors or they’re exact directors at my age or kind of. But actually, you know, you can’t compare each role because actually that could be in a much smaller organization. So actually don’t always kind of believe and having the forefront in mind, obviously what you see on LinkedIn or kind of socials or whatever, because actually you’re not comparing apples for apples, if you like, so to speak.

You’re actually potentially comparing yourself to someone and you have no idea of kind of their situation, what their day to day role looks like, kind of their background or even what they’ve done to get there either. So I think it’s kind of really realize that actually everyone’s situation is unique. So to compare yourself to somebody who maybe is living a completely different life to you and is working a completely different business in a completely different role is probably not the right thing to do. So it’s kind of, it’s, it’s that for me and kind of that also the kind of comparing of body image as well is something that’s very much something in the forefront of my mind. I go to the gym a lot. It’s kind of. I love going to the gym because for me it makes me feel good. But, you know, sometimes you see other people on social media like, God, how’d you get that body? Like that is like crazy.

But, you know, a lot of those individuals, you know, are individuals who, that’s their job. They’re a personal trainer. So they eat a certain diet, they restrict themselves in this, you know, to a certain extent, and they work out in the gym, like all day, every day. And that’s what they do for their career. So of course their body is going to be amazing in comparison to someone who has to work at an office desk or whatever. So it’s about being mindful of that as well. But it’s very easy to, you know, kind of compare yourself and look and think, you know, I should be at this place in my career. But you’re comparing yourself to someone who’s just career focused, if that makes sense.

Or I should have an amazing body. But you’re comparing yourself to someone who’s a fitness instructor. You really need to, like, think about actually all of the different layers that fit into your life. And because obviously we have kind of the socials and that side of things, you see these people and they’re put on a kind of a platform to you. But the reason they’re put on a platform is because they are at the top of their game. But it’s very easy for us to compare and be like, oh my God, like, I’m like, nothing like them. But actually you’re comparing yourself again, not for apples, for apples. It’s completely like comparing, like apples for pears, for example.

Yeliz Castillo:
Totally. And you know what’s funny? Like I always. And, and, and with all respect to everyone who, you know, is an influencer online, right? Like, if they earn their money, well done to them, like, I, I’m totally, yeah, like, not hating on them at all. But then at the same time, sometimes I think I don’t know one person in real who has that kind of life or that kind of lifestyle or that kind of a relationship or that kind of a success. And I’m talking about just success, right? Like no failure, whatever. Like this, this, this perfect image, you know, that, that you sometimes see and compare yourself to. Honestly, I don’t know anyone in my real life who has that. And if, if there is someone who’s been super successful, I know they, they have been struggling, you know, or if there is someone who has an amazing buddy, I know how they were looking or how they looked two, three or five years ago, you know, so it is like hard work that they put in the offering that they went through.

But then obviously no one really. I mean, I think that has also become a bit better. Right. People do share more now failures and do share more, share more their real story behind their successes. But I think in general there’s always this almost this desire to showcase a perfect image of yourself and then like, me and you, or like, you know, like everyone, I guess does that compares themselves to this perfect picture. That’s probably not even, you know, the truth. Sometimes I look at pictures of myself where I know I was mentally not in a good place, but if you would have just looked at the picture of me, you know, you would think, oh my God, perfect. She’s super happy.

Or, you know, she’s having the best time of her life. But I know in that picture, in that video, I wasn’t happy or there was something going on with life, you know, and then sometimes I think, and really try to remind myself of that too, that I do the same. You know, like it’s. It’s like you can put it on for a second or, you know, you obviously don’t want to share with everyone your whole story either. But I’m guilty of that too sometimes, you know, that I always, to myself, right? You have your privacy. So I think it’s really about breaking it down in your head and being realistic about, as you said, what you’re comparing yourself to and you know, what you’re looking at and what really the reality of that picture or, or success or that level of responsibility or title, whatever is right. Because I think we had this conversation before too, right? Where you can be a director, but you might have no team. Maybe you.

Yeah, totally, you know, and you have the director title. But is it a director really on in. Yeah, you know, a company that you work in, for example, or I do, you know, so I think there’s always, yeah, like a perspective to everything. And as you said, like, it’s so easy to say that, you know, to other people, but it’s important to implement to yourself. So, you know, noted for myself too.

Mathew Middlemass:
Yeah, 100 %. That’s exactly it. It’s actually just about being mindful of that and keeping that in the forefront of your mind. So that will kind of help you because it’s. It’s easy as well for our minds to play tricks on us. I say this to people all the Time. And I say this to people who are going through difficult periods, you know, when they’re. If they have an imposter syndrome or they feel like rubbish about themselves for any shape or form.

I say, you know, this is your mind playing tricks on you. This is, you know, your inner child, if you like so to, you know, so to speak, or kind of psychology speak, if you like saying you’re not good enough, you’re rubbish, you’re this, you’re that. But actually, it’s about kind of just saying that is not real. And actually, there’s a kind of a theory that I have or whether that one of my therapist. Well, my therapist gave me, and that is called the compassionate friend theory. And actually, it really was a game changer for me. And it was very much a case of when you start saying bad things to yourself or horrible things to yourself in your own mind, like, God, I’m rubbish at my job. Oh, God, people mustn’t like me.

You have to imagine if you said that to your friend and spoke out loud to your best friend or one of your most caring friends, your best friend doesn’t have to be the most caring. You know, we’ve all got different people in our life. What would that friend say to you? And I know that in my situation, when I say, don’t be so stupid, what are you talking about? You’re acting crazy. You’re. You’re not like that. You’re like this, you’re like that. And actually hearing almost what they would say in your own mind, say that to you really kind of puts that to bed, if that makes sense. Because you’re like, yeah, actually, like, I’m not being rational here.

And what I’m saying to myself, I’m not being kind to myself. My friend is obviously speaking to me in a kind way, but an honest way as well. And that is the way I should be speaking to myself.

Yeliz Castillo:
I 100 % agree. I actually did the exact opposite of that in. In the way that I always try to be my friend. And I think, okay, if now whatever I’m telling myself my friend would tell me, what would I say to them? You know, and then I try to apply that. And it’s the same principle, isn’t it? Like, yeah, And I try to really implement that and be like, okay, would I say the same thing if my friend would have done something wrong? You know, would I beat themselves? Would I beat them down with my words as well and be like, oh, my God, you’re so rubbish. You know, what was this you know, whatever, whatever. No, I wouldn’t. I would be really kind and try to support them and motivate them to, you know, get over it and do it better next time and learn from whatever they did wrong.

So it’s like really trying to be your own best friend, I guess, and your friends when they’re not there and you can’t have maybe a direct conversation because sometimes it’s also difficult to say the things out loud, right? Like when you think them, it’s fine, but when you say them actually out loud sometime it’s like a bit of like, I personally feel like that I feel embarrassed of my thoughts sometimes when I’m like, am I thinking, you know, what is that really the inner child? It’s really the child in us. So, yeah. So, Matt, what would be your top three tips for someone who goes through a difficult time, Maybe has, you know, the feeling of I’m not good enough and I’m. I’m just not there yet, and maybe compares themselves a lot to someone and really, really feels like they’re not achieving anything. What would you give them as a tip right now?

Mathew Middlemass:
I think firstly, be kind to yourself. Actually focus on actually everything, not just the negative parts. It’s very easy for us to focus on some of the things that we think we’re falling short on, but actually really focus on the bigger picture. So really take time to actually figure. Focus on the really positive aspects of your life or you as an individual, really take that minute and just kind of run through it in your own head. And I think the second tip for me would be realize that everything’s temporary. So if you’re going through a difficult part time in your life or do you feeling like a bit of a kind of in a difficult position in general that is temporary. And actually, as Winston Churchill said, if you’re going through hell, keep on going.

Why would you stop in the middle of hell? You wouldn’t, right? You wouldn’t stop there and stay there. You keep moving forward. So I think that’s put that perseverance, that resilience, and just focusing on moving forward is really important. And also focusing on what you can do to try and change it. You know, taking that accountability yourself and thinking, if I’m really unhappy with something, what can I do if I’m really unhappy with my job, Job, which a lot of people are, you know, I think a lot of people, you know, get to a Sunday night and they dread their work on a Monday. I’ve been there before in a previous role. Luckily I haven’t for my last couple, but I think really just then start focusing on actually what can you do to try and change that? Like, start looking for other jobs, have a think about kind of what your next steps are and actually use that kind of. Some of that kind of nervous or anxious energy to kind of really plow into something else.

Mathew Middlemass:
So you’re repurposing that energy. And then I just think just be. Yeah, take some time out for yourself as well. Just do stuff that’s going to make you feel good, be around people that are going to make you feel good. Remove toxic things from your life and kind of just bring it back to basics a little bit, whether it’s going for that walk in nature or just chilling with your friends in the park, just having a laugh, watching a funny film, anything like that. And it sounds really simple, but actually all of that stuff over a period of time really contributes to kind of a larger impact and positive effect on your life.

Yeliz Castillo:
Totally love that. Thank you so much. I think especially the accountability bit is so important to really control or change what you can control and everything that you can’t. And, yeah, just do whatever you can to. To have a different outcome of your life by taking different decisions than you have before. Thank you so much. It was lovely speaking to you and. Yeah, thank you.

Mathew Middlemass:
That’s all right. Thank you so much for having me. And obviously for all of you listening, kind of all the best. And remember, obviously, if you are going through a bit difficult time, it is temporary, it will get better. So just, you know, stay resilient and persevere.

Yeliz Castillo:
Oh, that’s so sweet. That deserves a heart. Thank you.

Mathew Middlemass:
All right, cheers. Thanks so much.